Apr 25
An actual gold list mature bronze book for Spanish
Note how the exercise book is used on both sides. You need at least 40 lined spaces deep. Note the dating of lists, and the numbering of lines. See how both throwing out and condensing are used as distillation methods.
Posted on 25/04/2010. Bookmark the permalink. 38 Comments.
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Hello.
I’d the pleasure of listening to your lecture during Summer Research Practicals ’11.
I got a smartphone last week and I’m using it to improve my language skills. I was wondering – have you heard of Anki decks? I use them to learn Japanese and Arabic and they’re quite similar to your method. I haven’t found any references on your page, so here’s the link: http://ankisrs.net/.
You can create your own decks and then schedule the learning process.
Nice to see you again here. I remember our brief conversation.
I do know Anki, and I know that it is a good method. It is like a free version of Wozniak’s supermemo, and it follows a similar algorithm.
It doesn’t really handle your stats very well, and it doesn’t have all that many decks. If you want to use it for anything there is no deck for you have to make your own deck, which isn’t easy. I also found it was difficult to get Kanjis to show up at a readable size.
If we are talking about Japanese, then there is another Supermemo/anki style tool at http://www.readthekanji.com and I do use this, in addition to my goldlists. I bought a subscription, and I think it delivers value for money and has even recently been improved to match the new Noryoshiken exams, the JLPT’s. If you are thinking of taking the JLPT, then http://www.readthekanji.com is an excellent use of money, in my opinion.
All these methods are closer to Ebbinghaus’s findings than Goldlist is. Goldlist is a simplification, a working approximation to Ebbinghaus. However, it has three advantages over Anki and Supermemo and other computer-based methods:
1. You are not tied to a computer. If you work all day at one, you need to do something else when you relax. With Goldlist you can sit in the sun and do it, you can take it for a walk in the park. You can plan your distillations even while the plane is taking off and the fasten seatbelt sign is on. You can even do it sitting on the toilet seat.
2. Handwriting seems to stimulate memory more than kepboard typing, and in any case we don’t handwrite enough and then our handwriting looks bad when we need it because it is underexercised.
3. You can put whatever you like into it without having to either find a deck or make one, and will always be free to use.
But it isn’t all or nothing. You can have one book going through Goldlist and use Readthekanji or Anki at the same time. You don’t have to choose between the methods, you can mix and match.
Hope this helps.
David
how we make imperfective verb perfective??
There are numerous ways in which imperfective verbs become perfective. Most commonly it is by the addition of a prefix, like po- s- vy- etc. The second most common is that the verb will change class. More verbs in the it’ class are perfective and the at’ are imperfective. However sometimes that works the opposite way. et’ infinitives can go either way. The third way is that the aspectival pair will not even resemble each other. For example govorit’ and skazat’ – where again the it’ verb goes against the norm in being the imperfective and skazat’ is the perfective. Lovit’ and poymat’ is another good example. You simply need to learn the verbs as an aspectival pair, which is how they are given anyway in all good dictionaries.
how we use soft sign in russian???
It marks a consonsonant which is soft if there’s no soft vowel after it. That’s why it’s especially found at the ends of words. It also can be found in front of ye and ya and other soft vowels showing additional softening, where it works like a shorter version of “i”. Sometimes these are words which had alternatives with i in Old Church Slavonic, and it marks the non-pronunciation of the extra syllable, in those cases.
thanks…….
can u expalin the reflexive verbs??? pleasee
Reflexive verbs are a form of verb whereby a transitive verb acts like an intransitive verb by making the subject the object of the action. They exist in almost every language, the difference between Russian and English is that English is more implicit about the reflexives. Let me give you an example. If I say in English “I shave” then it’s implicit in that that I’m shaving myself. If it turns out that the object is not myself then that’s unexpected and as such can be material for jokes a bit like “My dog’s got no nose/How does he smell?/terrible!” which hinge on the unexpected change in object from transitive to intransitive. I can imagine a similar joke about shaving in English going something like this “My Dad is really annoyed that I’ve started shaving./ Really? Is it because you’re not so much his little boy any more?/ Well, the final straw was when I took his eyebrows off”. Do you see the hinge there? In Russian, shaving is not implicitly reflexive but explicitly, so you simply wouldn’t be able to make that kind of joke. In Russian you say “I shave myself” Ya breyus’ and the s’ is the reflexive participle, tacked on as a postclitic part of the verb. You don’t just say “I shave”. If in English you say “I shave myself” then it would suggest that the context was that someone had suggested that you shaved another person and you wanted to emphasise that it was yourself and not anyone else. To make that emphasis in Russian, you’d say ya breyu sebya. The postclitic s’ or sya becomes a full ‘sebya’ (oneself) which is what it is short for in the first place.
can u explain consonant mutation???
I can try, but in what context, very generally or with regard to a particular language?
i learn russian…i want to know how we use consonant mutation..
Well, it’s a feature of the language. Basically the idea is that of hard and soft. You can learn about it through the RL101 series in YouTube.
how many lessons in your RL 102?
I think about 21 lessons, but some are stretched over 2 videos so there about 28 pieces. It is only about half way, and then I have 103 to come after. I have only done a quarter of the lessons I would have liked to do, but doing more will need a lot of planning and time.
UR 8 OR 9 LESSON IN RL 101 OR RL 102..AND ONE MORE UR VOICE IS AWESOME …..KEEP SINGING..)))
Many thanks.
UR 8 OR 9 LESSON IN RL 101 OR RL 102?………..AND ONE MORE UR VOICE IS AWESOME…..KEEP SINGING…….))))
i am new in russian language…….so i have problem in hard and soft vowels…and one more how could i know which word is stressed or not…
If you have done the Huliganov Russian course in lessons 8 and 9 you will get a good idea of hard/soft. Remember it’s not so much the vowel that is the issue as what it does to preceding consonants. As far as stress is concerned you will have to learn stress patterns in words individually. And there are some where the stress changes where you don’t expect it. You have to get a book containing these cases and learn them, there’s no magic formula.
ur 8 0r 9 lessons in RL 101 OR RL 102…..?………AND ONE MORE UR VOICE IS AWESOME……….
Witam, mam pytanie dotyczące nauki języka angielskiego:
- kiedy czytam rozumiem bardzo dużo
- ale kiedy ten sam tekst tylko słyszę to rozumiem znacznie mniej
Czy stosowanie metody “Gold List” pomaga w rozumieniu ze słuchu ?
Jakie są Pana metody na nauczenie się rozumienia ze słuchu ( np. tak aby rozumieć filmy)
Allow me to answer in English, as after all you are learning English and understand from what you tell me most of what you read. If I answer this way, many more people will get the benefit of your question, and it’s a very good question. I was meaning to talk about this matter in the book, but as you’ve asked it I’ll deal with it here. I’ll also make this answer an article in its own right. If you didn’t understand something, please say so and I’ll explain any such bits in Polish.
You basically said that when you read English you understand a lot, but when you hear even the same text spoken, you understand a lot less. You asked whether the Goldlist method would help with listening.
OK, so here’s the answer.
Firstly, reading and listening are two sides of the same discipline. They are both the passive sides of linguistic activity. Linguistic activity, like mathematical activity, has four main functions. In maths we have addition, multiplication, subtraction and division. And just as division is like the opposite or passive side of multiplication, so hearing is the passive side of speaking. And just as subtraction is the passive side of addition, so reading is the passive side of writing. And just as it is easier to do big subration sums than it is to do long division without a calculator, so it is that the beginner until fluency is gained will find the passive activity of reading to be easier than the passive activity of hearing.
In reading, we provide in our heads our own “voice” for the words and we “listen” to that. But it is a voice that we have made and therefore it will contain the mispronunciations that we have picked up. We may hear the same word back read by a native speaker and it may sound different because the pronunciation is not what we expected. The Goldlist can help here if you note with words in the goldlist any unexpected pronunciation to an English word if you’re learning English or other not precisely phonetic language.
In the main the reason why we do not understand a spoken text as well is that the tempo it is presented in will be someone else’s tempo. When we read we adjust the speed of the internal voice to match what we are comfortable with. We pause when we need to think about a word, whereas in a spoken text the voice carries on while we still need to chew on an earlier word, and we get lost. We can also see an unfamiliar word and analyse it for etymological clues, and do things that we don’t have time for when listening to a text. If we do get lost we can repeat it.
So don’t expect following a spoken text to be equally easy as following a written one. Not unless you are learning Japanese, that is. And even there, the speech of some speakers, especially male speakers, is quite hard to follow. Bear in mind also that some languages swallow half the letters, for instance French and Danish, and many accents of English. Accents in themselves cause listening comprehension to be much tougher than reading comprehension, especially in languages like German or English which contain strong dialects. In Polish even the Zakopane accent is not so hard to follow – I heard some on the radio this morning as a local was commenting record visitors to the place last long weekend. Kashubian is the biggest challenge maybe, or a thick Silesian, but Kashubian counts as another language and even Silesian is not as far from Polish as some of the dialects around England are from one another. People speaking southern England dialect can follow standard Australian or American with much greater facility than they can follow broad Geordie or Scouser once they get going. Please make sure you are following people who are speaking a form of English that is fairly standard. Many Poles went to Ireland and pride themselves on getting an Irish brogue, but the downside is that they aren’t all that understandable to other native speakers. Irish is a lovely accent when it’s authentic, but it’s not one the foreigner should be aiming to copy for international use if they can help it. I’m not talking Terry Wogan here, I’m talking a strong Irish accent.
So, what tools can one use to improve listening comprehension? In the good old days, in schools we used to be given dictees in French – less so in German as it was more self evident how things were written as long as a person wasn’t speaking to us in Schwaebisch. I understand that ‘dyktando’ was also used in Polish schools. You can actually give yourself a dictation by taking an audiobook and sampling a paragraph at random on the mp3, writing it out from listening to the actor read and then checking it back to the book.
You don’t even need to write it, you can simply listen to an audiobook paragraph by paragraph, then read the original to see if you understood everything, and then mark the words you still don’t know, and then use the translation to get those words, which by the way should be added to the Goldlist headlist. This linguistic Triathlon is a great way to develop both the passive skills.
The best way to go about it is to see if you can get three things for the same novel or short story: first the audiobook read by a good actor on mp3 on audible.com or other sources. There’s no shortage of material out there on the net and not all of it is paid, if you get my drift. second you need the English original and finally you need a Polish translation. It probably helps if at least one of the two written ones is in printed form – a print-out if not a book bought or borrowed from the library. By using this method you’ll gradually come to see that you need the Polish translation less and less and you need to read the material in addition to just hearing it less and less. Also you’ll familiarise yourself with some of the jewels of English literature. Take twentieth century literature in order to have a more modern standard – we tend not to talk these days in the way people did in Dickens or Jane Austen, but in due course if you like the process you’ll be able to graduate to them.
If you cannot get into novels and literature, you could choose films. Films with a lot of talking in are preferable. Green Mile, Good Will Hunting, Dead Poets Society, Fight Club – these are all better than pure action movies like James Bond which will take your time up with car chases and sexy women which could more profitably be spent on language learning. The thing to do here is to get DVDs – preferably hiring them, and play about with the soundtracks and titles. Basically when the DVD was born the language lab died.
Witam! Chciałabym się zacząć uczyć francuskiego, tylko nie wiem od czego zacząć. A Pan ma na youtube tyle filmików, że nie mogę się w nich odnaleźć.. Mogę prosić o poradę?
pozdrawiam
Witam, bardzo proszę o podpowiedz
Mam pytania odnośnie metody:
1. Jeśli napiszę listę 25 słów, czy mam ją po napisaniu jeszcze raz lub dwa razy przeczytać?
2. Jeśli robię destylację i sprawdzam zapamiętane słowa, czy mogę przy sprawdzaniu zakryć sobie znaczenie słowa. Bo sprawdzając poprzez patrzenie na nie tak naprawdę nie wiem czy je do końca pamiętam, gdyż wydaje mi się, że spojrzenie na nie (słówko + tłumaczenie)wprowadza mnie w błąd, iż je znam.
3. czy robiąc listę muszę być w ciszy i skupieniu? Czy np. grający telewizor lub radio mogą przeszkadzać w tworzeniu listy i w konsekwencji w zapamiętywaniu?
Thanks for the longer, descriptive posting and for the videos on the method. The theory makes sense and, frankly, after struggling for more than two years to learn Tibetan vocabulary using traditional methods (and with little lasting success) it is time to try something completely different. I am about a week into building a headlist and have the following questions:
1. Given Tibetan’s stacked letters, I can get ten headwords to page, with enough room to create the second and third distillations. So I am doing twenty words at a sitting, ten to a page. Does it make more sense to treat these as ten or twenty word groups in the distillation process?
2. When you speak of “getting all the grammar” with a word, I am wondering how to work with verbs. For example, “to go” has four distinct written forms (Tibetan has *many* irregular verbs). Is it best to treat them as four headwords or gather the forms together?
3. Tibetan uses a wide variety of lexical and syntactic particles. Particle spelling varies with the final letter of the preceding syllable. For example, the agentive particle has five forms. Have you used this method to commit this sort of information into l/t memory? Do you have any suggestions for structuring it?
Again, thanks for sharing this method. I will write again to let you know how it is going.
Mind if I asked several questions ? I am currently preparing for CAE exam, so you could say I’m nearly C1 level. I think I have already got a handle on grammar, so only part that is left is vocabulary.
My question is which books should I reach for ? I tried with penguine readers or whetever it is called, but to be honest, I didn’t find it hard, or even challenging (it wasn’t interesting and the words weren’t so hard – all I found, were, at most, 20 words which were rather connected to specific profession like being a lawyer or whatsoever).
I also tried the ‘orginal books’ which I had found more interesting. I read ‘The Series Of Unfortunate Events’ which was quite good, as for me still. Because of that book’s character, the harder idioms were even translated to my amazement (but I think it was rather to diversify its conent). I also have tried, and still am trying (it is still reading) the book called ‘One shot’ Lee Child. I also found it interesting, but it was much harder to understand (meaning, that it had a lot of harder words, mainly technical, that I hadn’t understood). When I took my pencil to underline the words I didn’t understand, after some time I realized, that its quantity was like from 0-4 per pages (and I am at 60 page yet !).
According to this, what are the most valuable, yet interesting books, that I could learn from, and what words should I underline (and then write into a notebook; some words, like certain types of plant I don’t find very useful or valuable). And shall I also learn the informal language, like ‘slang’ ? Or it is that kind of part of language, that varies depending on the place of living ?
Thanks in advance,
Michał.
I tried to write it in English, so you would have less trouble with deciphering what I really meant. But the reply in either Polish or English is good
And one more thing – shall I use the english definition or polish as the translation ? (btw. when I write an adjective meaning the nation, like english, polish, then it starts with capital letter, or small letter ?)
Co Pan sądzi o uczeniu się z takich kursów online jak prowadzi https://www.etutor.pl
Szerze mowiac ogladajac to w tej chwili, powiedzialbym tak, interfejs atrakcyjne, aby ktos juz cos kupil, ale widze tu straszny szwedzki stol, bez kursu prowadzacego od pewnego punktu do pewnego punktu, i bez wiekszej pomocy w tym. Wymowa tej pani jaka uzywana jest jako reklama jest ohydna, mowi “Mr Johns” ale potem piszy “Mr Jones” czyli beda nie w stanie uczyc ludziom roznicy pomiedzy dlugimi a krotkimi samogloskami.
Nie wiem jaki standard angielskiego masz w tej chwili, ale na prawde mozna dostac super materialy ze sklepu nie kupujac abonamentu itp itd, i uzywac metodologie goldlist aby to uczyc. Ja bym sie nie dal doic. Prosze rowniez zauwazyc ze ich statystyke na Alexa.com nie odpowiada temu, ze mowia ze maja przeszlo 80,000 studentow. Typowy widz oglada tylko pare stron i spedzi 5 minut na stronie. Traffic rank na domenach .pl gorszy niz 4,000 – to na pewno nie swiadczy o 80,000 aktywnych studentow jezyka. To by juz byly wyzej niz 1000 miejsce. Wiec trzeba uwazac.
Zgadzam się z Panem w sprawie marketingu prowadzonego przez serwis, ja osobiście nie kieruję się liczbami jakie faktycznie są podawane, bo wiadomo, że prawdopodobnie są zawyżone. Materiały zamieszczone w etutor są poukładane w różnych poziomach i dlatego sporo użytkowników sięga i chwali sobie ten kurs. Większość materiałów zamieszczonych w etutor bazuje na multimedialnym słowniku angielskiego http://www.diki.pl/ wyróżnienia http://www.diki.pl/o-slowniku/, czy warto sięgać przy metodologii goldlist po różne startupy internetowe typu podcast tj
http://www.diki.pl/radio/podcasty/
http://www.businessenglishpod.com/category/esl-podcast/
http://www.isel.edu.pl/slowniki/isel-1300.php#b
http://internetbusinessmastery.com/category/podcast
Może jakaś osoba skorzysta z powyższych linków
Poprosimy Pana o podpowiedź z jakich materiałów korzystać, aby nauka była interesująca?
Nie wiedzac na jakim szczeblu Pan jest, trudno porade dac, ale zwykle zaczynalbym od jakiegos dobrego kursu ktory podoba mis sie w ksiegarni. A potem bym uzywal albo maly papierowy slownik, jezeli on-line to tylko czestotliwy, albo w ogole czytalbym beletrystyke angielska ktora posiada polskie tlumaczenie, i nie musialbym wtedy uzywac slowniku, tylko sledzic znaczenie slow w tlumaczeniu.
To sie robi w ten sposob, kupujesz jakas fajna angielska ksiazke typu “Catcher in the Rye” Salingera, dostaniesz jego polskie tlumaczenie “Buszujacy w zbozu”. Inne rekomendacja moga byc “Catch 22″ Josepha Heller (slynny Paragraf 22 lubiany w Polsce), Lot nad Kukulczym Gniazdem, itp itd. Jest setki dobre ksiazki ktore nie tylko sa warte jako objekty literatury ale tez jako kursy jezykowe idealnie nadajace sie na Goldlisting.
Najpierw dostaniesz audio ksiazke (audible.com lub w pirackim beju) i sluchasz sobie audio wersje, zobaczyc jak duzo, czy malo, rozumiesz i porownasz to na potem. Kolejna rzecz jest czytanie paragrafa originalu, z olowkiem w reku. Slowa, jakie nie rozumiesz, podkreslasz. Wtedy wezmiesz tlumaczenie, i czytasz ten sam fragment, to wiele szybciej dojdziesz do slowa i jego tutejsze uzywanie niz przez slownik. Wiedzac znaczenie tych slow, dodajesz je do Goldlistu i obrabiasz potem wg systemu. Mozesz dodac ladne cytaty rowniesz tam, wszystko z ksiaszki, co chcesz dlugofalowo pamietac.
i wanna learn italian language
OK. So what do you wanna learn it for and what’s your strategy gonna be?
I can’t figure out the numbering system. I tried to access the http://www.usenetposts.com/goldlist.xls and did not find anything. Please guide me as I am learning Russian and the method looks as though it may work for me. Thank you for your many YT classes.
Neva, have a look at the side bar and there is a bunch of categories. One of the categories is called “Goldlist Methodology”. If the films there and the articles don’t answer your question then please tell me what in particular you need to know and I’ll do my best.
Z tego co tu widać pisze Pan oprócz słówek jeszcze całe zdania. Przepisuje je Pan z kursu? I jakiego typu są to zdania, przypadkowe, reguły gramatyczne, czy sam Pan je układa ze słów???
Na poczatek sa przepisane z kursu, a mogli by byc w bardziej zaawansowanym stazu studiow cytaty z literatury, badz ciekawe grupy slow z czasopisma, brane z przykladow uzywania w slownikach itp. W destylacjach sam ich sie uklada jako kombinacja slow pojedynczych czasami, jako alternatywa do wyrzucania wprost.