Here is the series of three recent Watchtower (so-called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”) films I made on three consecutive Sundays recently.
In this one, I had received a surprise call from two ladies wanting to talk about the Bible, but not initially identifying their organisation. On impulse, I just grabbed the camera and filmed this discussion covertly on the balcony.
It finished off as you can tell with my challenge for them to return. They probably would not have come back at all without my telling them that they wouldn’t and using their desire to prove me wrong, but of course when they did come back for round to they pulled in reinforcements. Katie wasn’t allowed to have a second dose of truth, but Peter the Elder stood in for her, and he is much heavier duty artilliery, that’s why he’s an Elder…
In any event Peter wasn’t allowing discussion of certain matters or he would have walked out. He also was in no mood to return for another helping the following week, so the last in the series is me on my own telling the things that he wasn’t going to let me put to him and still remain in situ.
Anyway, if anyone would like more information on the origins of Watchtower and its connections with other unwholesome things, the best source is Fritz Springmeier‘s book “The Watchtower and the Masons”. I’m not stating that I necessarily agree with Fritz in all aspects or align myself with him, but the arguments made in there are the ones that people seeking to exonerate C T Russell need to deal with. The book is available for free in various parts of the internet.
The above films caused a strong desire on the part of some JWs to debate, and of course that all came up against the threading issues in YouTube, and the wordcount limit. My suggestion is that if you want to debate at further length, this is a better place to do so as it should be threading properly and allow you to say everything you need to say in response to the films. I am not trying to censor debate by you Watchtower on the films – quite the opposite! And you’ll still be able to comment there, nobody has been squelched, but I will place a link to this article in the descriptions of those films stating that the comments to this article here in Huliganov TV are the preferred place. You will need a wordpress account to make the most of it, but that is free. You can comment without being a wordpress registered user, but you have less functionality, so I recommend doing so if you can.
Several people, whose identities I won’t reveal, have contacted me privately seeking Jesus Christ after these films. All Christians watching, please pray for these people to be saved and reach assurance of salvation, and also for the people I’ve been speaking to in the films, that they will come out of darkness and error into rightful understanding of the person and work of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Related articles
- Jehovah’s Witnesses hold conventions in Gwinnett. (jwitness.wordpress.com)
- Canada: Thousands gather for Watchtower convention. (jwitness.wordpress.com)
- Jehovah’s Witnesses to hold 7-weekend ‘Let God’s Kingdom Come!’ convention in Amherst. (jwitness.wordpress.com)
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This is really interesting. I am enjoying these discussions. One translation I would love to get my hands on would be a parallel text Saami-English. It is interesting that you have participated in the work to translate the Bible.
It is so sad that so many people let organisations do their thinking for them (advertisers make a handsome living from it). I suppose to some extent we are all indoctrinated ; even philosophy students can be seen to be indoctrinated if they do not question others opinions carefully enough.
It can reach the point where it is difficult to know how much truth there is in anything we read ,hear or (these days) see.
Some organisations and beliefs are outstanding examples of mass indoctrination and I certainly agree that Mr James is not mistaken in his assessments that come out of these three videos.
That said, I think Christians should realise that all scripture (N.T. and Torah) is written by enlightened and usually inspired human beings. We only have the word of men that what is written is the word of God. As none of this can be proven to the satisfaction of all beings the discussions between religious individuals, atheists and agnostics becomes no more than an exercise in persuasion and rhetoric (albeit based on sincerely-held views). We cannot KNOW that a Divine creative and universal guiding force exists any more than we KNOW that it doesn’t. It does all come down to belief. And this is where those who would indoctrinate others have a field day. Atheists too are responsible for their share of indoctrination. I see little point in being partisan to any non-proveable cause.
I do like Mr James’s approach to Christianity though in seeing it as a personal relationship between the divine and the human as opposed to the stance taken by churches that an intermediary body of people is required for worship to be effective.
When looking at the questions of spirituality I am greatly influenced (though I hope not indoctrinated) by Alan Watts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts) who warns against cults and the wholesale adoption of others beliefs without subjecting them to rigorous
questioning and testing out in one’s own life.
Thankyou Huli for making these three fascinating videos available. The debate continues………..
D.D.
It is so sad that so many people let organisations do their thinking for them (advertisers make a handsome living from it). I suppose to some extent we are all indoctrinated ; even philosophy students can be seen to be indoctrinated if they do not question others opinions carefully enough.
It can reach the point where it is difficult to know how much truth there is in anything we read ,hear or (these days) see.
Some organisations and beliefs are outstanding examples of mass indoctrination and I certainly agree that Mr James is not mistaken in his assessments that come out of these three videos.
That said, I think Christians should realise that all scripture (N.T. and Torah) is written by enlightened and usually inspired human beings. We only have the word of men that what is written is the word of God. As none of this can be proven to the satisfaction of all beings the discussions between religious individuals, atheists and agnostics becomes no more than an exercise in persuasion and rhetoric (albeit based on sincerely-held views). We cannot KNOW that a Divine creative and universal guiding force exists any more than we KNOW that it doesn’t. It does all come down to belief. And this is where those who would indoctrinate others have a field day. Atheists too are responsible for their share of indoctrination. I see little point in being partisan to any non-proveable cause.
I do like Mr James’s approach to Christianity though in seeing it as a personal relationship between the divine and the human as opposed to the stance taken by churches that an intermediary body of people is required for worship to be effective.
When looking at the questions of spirituality I am greatly influenced (though I hope not indoctrinated) by Alan Watts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts) who warns against cults and the wholesale adoption of others beliefs without subjecting them to rigorous
questioning and testing out in one’s own life.
Thankyou Huli for making these three fascinating videos available. The debate continues………..
D.D.
Many thanks, DD.
Hi, DD! Have you read the recent comments under the youtube video of part one? It would be good if they were copied to this discussion as it would help all see the context and also mean we can avoid too much repetition. I will make a reply on your message above in the near future.
GypsyPianist from youtube
General observations on inter-faith and no-faith discussions.
“Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest” ………(Paul Simon ; The Boxer.) I’ve found this to be so very true, particularly so on the internet blogs and chat rooms. No amount of discussion seems to alter somebodies mindset when it comes to spiritual or religious belief. It amounts to “yes I hear what you’re saying”.
Perhaps it would help if we showed more humility in whatever faith we have remembering Cromwell’s oft-quoted words “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.”
D.D.
You don`t know what you`re talking about.You do not know your`re Bible.And I don`t think it`s wise to criticize Moslems or any other religions.Stick to to teaching Russian.
I do know what I’m talking about. I do know my’m Bible, at any rate better than you do. And I do think it’s unwise to hold anybody or any set of beliefs as beyond criticism.
So in summary, I will “stick to to” doing whatever suits me. If you would like to boss bloggers around, and stop them saying things against Islamic theology even though they have perfectly legitimate disagreements, then take I suggest the following three steps:
a) find yourself a dhimmi
b) then tell that dhimmi of yours what to do
c) not me.
Todah rabah ve layla tovah.
I don’t think it is wise NOT to question any set of beliefs, religious or otherwise. Wisdom can only come from questioning our own and others beliefs and modifying those beliefs where necessary in the light of debate and disagreement.
If a body of teaching cannot be subject to honest evaluation and possible disagreement then it suggests that the teaching or the views held rests on very fragile foundations.
You don’t have to agree with everything Huliganov or anybody else posits on these pages nor do you need have a denigrating attitude towards them if you don’t agree with what they say.
Most religions are disagreed with and criticised all the time but if you firmly believe in a specific set of teaching why should other’s criticism bother you.
No views should be exempt from being challenged ; religious, scientific, political, philosophical or any other body of human endeavour. It guards against intellectual and spiritual stagnation.
I certainly do not agree with everything Huliganov writes in these pages (though I do agree with a large proportion of it) but I do respect his right to state his views and I respect him as an individual. You have a perfect right to disagree with Huliganov but why insult him ?
I’m glad you put up these videos. I’m glad you know the Word as well as you do, and I’m glad these videos have lead people to Christ. I watched all of them, and I can see that your faith is solid and grounded in the bible. There are three things I want to point out, though:
Around 10:50 of the second video, you said that Thomas uses the vocative case. I checked it, and it turns out he uses the nominative in both the Textus Receptus and Westcott-Hort. While many words have a vocative identical to the nominative, both θεός and κύριος have their own vocatives (θεέ and κύριε, respectively). I still think he’s referring to Jesus, though, as I can’t imagine a disciple of Jesus exclaiming “oh my god!” in surprise, especially in the Lord’s presence.
Another thing is “The mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6. I have no doubt that it’s referring to Jesus as God, but I don’t know why the KJV has “the” in there. I would expect to find the definite article there in Hebrew, but it says “אֵל גִבּוֹר” with no article. My Norwegian 1938 bible doesn’t translate it as definite, nor does it have the indefinite article. That said, how many would there be to choose from? There is only one God that the Messiah could be.
The last thing is something I’ve mentioned before the pluralis excellentiae, which I’m not sure about. אֱלֹהִים is in the plural and takes singular verb endings (and singular adjectives, I think), but so does בְּהֵמוֹת in the book of Job. I don’t know how this works with pronouns, though.
Thanks for those corrections. My Hebrew s not good enough to get into detail about the last point but maybe someone else will,
Hi Viktor,
I’m writing you because I watched all 3 You Tube videos on the Jehovah’s Witnesses back to back. I have been “studying” with a JW for a year now in my home and am trying to expose her to scriptures that will open her eyes. It’s a slow process. I think you and your theology is spot on and I wish you were my Sunday school teacher. Basically I just need your prayers as well as the woman with whom I’ve been studying. Please pray for her. I would love to have a house church or other ministry full of ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses from my area and disciple them.
Side note, what do you think about the scripture in 2 Timothy where Paul says he doesn’t permit a woman to teach a man? I’ve listened to a little bit from both sides of the argument and I tend to lean toward the conservative view. However I’m a woman and so this is disappointing because I so want to pour out what I believe God tells me in the scriptures to others and there is no avenue for that presently at my church. All the women’s classes have plenty of teachers. Please tell me your view so that I can more fully examine my own.
Love in Christ,
-J-
In hospital with pneumonia now, but looking forward to answering this. as soon as I am able.
Dear VDH,
I am really VERY sorry to hear of your hospitalisation. I would like to say you will be in my prayers but as I am not a believer in the Judeo/Christian deity the best I can offer is a sincere wish that you are very soon recovered to good health and are back with your family and that you are being thought of at this time.
People of your worth and vitality need to be healthy and do not deserve to be incapacitated. I feel sure I speak for many who follow your channel (s).
Dewa Dog.
Many thanks for that encouragement, my friend.
So that’s why you’ve been gone for so long! I was pretty shocked to see this! Let’s pray for your quick recovery, Uncle Davey. Please come back soon, healthier than ever!
Warm wishes from Victor!
Many thanks, your prayers are much appreciated.