The channel “excatholics” is one I’m subscribed to on YouTube and highly recommend it to my viewers. I don’t think I have any real disagreements with this brother’s theology, although I do think he uses the term “Calvinist” to describe thinking that to my mind is hypercalvinism, and that what he thinks himself is what I’d describe as Calvinistic – in any rate it’s certainly not Arminian.
Here’s one great example of his work – during the watching of this small hilltop sermon today I got the breath of fresh air that his words often give me several times over.
He hasn’t offered a space for comment or even rating on that space, which is a stylistic difference as I am all for letting people have their say and engage them in some way, but if you want to rate this or discuss it on this forum, I don’t see why not. Syndication has been allowed on the video and so I have syndicated it without specifically asking. I will let James know that I have re-blogged this piece and if he’s not happy then I can always remove it later.
I don’t need to say much about the topic of Christadelphians as he covers it in my opinion perfectly well. The remarks he makes are particularly insightful.
Enjoy!
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The first remark the speaker remembers is that we are pacifists, which is a good description for us who try to follow Jesus on all plans. But we agree the brother gave a very strange, not to say terrible response, which could perhaps be misunderstood.
We look forward to the second coming of Christ but are aware that we have to protect ourselves and people around us in the mean time, while we make our selves stronger to cope Armageddon.
when he talks about Satan, he takes him for a person, while we take it for the word what it mean in language: the (any) adversary, plus “hell” (sheool) is the grave, a place where dead people end up. When a person dies he or she has paid for his or her sins, so there should not have to be an other penalty in purgatory or hell as a place of eternal torment.
As a doctor in medicine he came to thorough Biblestudy after his bad experience on the boat. But he never presented him as a prophet or making predictions. The person talking in the video takes some assumptions or ways of thinking of this worldly man as did he had presented his thoughts as a truth to take, which he never did.
the matter of raptured this speaker really did not study very well our sayings because other-while he would give an other explanation. So we would advice readers to have a look about that matter on Christadelphian websites.
About the “main cracks” we can only say that we as Jehovah Witnesses and other non-trinitarians only believe what the Holy Scriptures tell us about God, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, Prophets, apostles a.o. figures in the Bible. No where in the 66 books you shall find “Trinity” written in it. But more than once you shall here Jesus telling he is the son of God and lower than his Father, to whom he is going to sit at his right hand and shall over the Kingdom of God in the end.
Yes we do believe Jesus is a man, who really died, while God is an eternal spirit, who had no beginning and no end and as such can not die.
He says our opinion of not accepting Christ Jesus as God puts us in the camp of the cults, but than he should consider what the real meaning of a cult is.
We would appreciate it if you give a rightful insight, and in case you do not agree with our thought still give us the fair chance to explain why we are thinking this way and to let us also be know by other people from our site.
With respect,
In the love of Christ,
The Belgian Christadelphians
Dear anonymous Belgian Christadelphian commentator,
Thanks for your reactions. I note that both the comments made so far on this article are not given by a named person and both of them come from the same server. That’s OK, but I wanted to point it out for the benefit of other readers.
I agree with you that it is correct to give people the right to answer and reply claims about them or their beliefs given on-line. For this reason your answers given here are not censored and should you wish to continue the discussion here this will continue uncensored, even if you decide to remain anonymous.
The fact that James or “ex-catholics” to use his channel name doesn’t always allow these responses I think is a weakness on his part, but I still think that he is a very sound Christian, and the fact that he is an ex-catholic doesn’t mean that he has things worse thought through that anyone else. On the contrary. I wonder whether you tell those of your fellow Christadelphians who used to be Roman Catholics that they are any the worse than Christadelphians who have been born and brought up in their group.
Let us come to your debate over the word “sect”. You say that being non-Trinitarian is not grounds for being called a “sect”. In a sense, one can agree with that. Islam is non-Trinitarian, it also believes that Jesus was just a man and not equal to God the Father, and yet people tend to accord it the status of a religion and not a sect. However, we don’t call it Christian, either. And I cannot really see how any form of religion which says it has a great deal of respect for Christ but doesn’t see how the Bible shows Christ as fully God as well as fully Man, and therefore the perfect mediator between Man and God and the only Way by which we could be atoned with God is really able to offer a way of salvation by faith in Christ as is the essence of the Christian gospel. And sure enough, almost all the religions which are wonky about the Trinity also are unable to offer pure salvation by grace through faith alone, and always bring human works, the filthy rags of human pretended righteousness, into the salvation equation.
When organisations that are not able to offer the Gospel properly because of a deficient view of the deity of Christ call themselves Christian churches, then Christians from the large array of church organisations which are able to offer a proper Gospel message (trinitarian ones, but not even necessarily all of those, as there as still some trinitarians who bring in works, especially the Catholics and Orthodox) need some way to differentiate themselves, some way of talking about other Baptists, Methodists, Salvation Army people, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Pentecostalists, Presbyterians (I could go on and on) who are mutually cognisant of the other’s Christian status even if their emphases and styles don’t necessarily suit the members of other ones of these groups. How do we then depict the organisations who call themselves Churches but which in our view are not real churches? The most common answer is to depict them as sects. However, this can be a dangerous shorthand.
Sects by another, more accurate definition, are those organisations which use psychological manipulation to gina or retain members. We can talk about the Moonies (Unification Church), and also because of their shunning and disfellowshipping techniques groups like the Watchtower, and also the Mormons. However, also Islam, which is not called a sect, won’t allow apostacy from Islam to other religions and in some countries governed by Islam to do so is punishable by death. Moreover you do even get organisations with a right view of Christ for salvation which are misled into cultish or sectish ways of separating their people and making it hard for them to leave even when in their hearts they no longer believe. An example of the latter case is the Strict and Particular Brethren.
I will confess that I do not know enough about Christadelphianism to know exactly where things stand both with your doctrines and also with your behaviours as an organisation towards people coming and going, and what is demanded of a member of your organisation to know exactly how I would define it. James made his case, I find it a well-made case based on his personal experience of one of your organisation’s groups. You can certainly educate me and my viewers with another side of the story, as long as you are frank and honest then you will receive respect in these columns.
Even the fact that you, as one person, feel that you can sign off as all the members of your organisation in your country rather than just your own name, though, doesn’t give me a comfortable feeling about your lack of cultishness or lack of sectishness…
With respect,
In the love of Christ,
David J. James
For the Christadelphians people are always free to come and go, and in the community they are also free to express their opinion and express their believes in the way they want to do it. That’s why there may be so many differences between the different ecclesiae or churches, and even in the same ecclesia one service can be done one way and the other service in a totally different way. there is no Headquarters or Bastion which direct every Christadelphian organisation. They all stand on their own and are totally free how to organise themselves. All members are always left free.
As evrybody is free to come to our congregations they are also free to go. But when we would know some Christadelphian doing very serious sins, fornicating, doing paedophilia acts, murdering, we will exclude him or her form the congregation as long as he or she does not repent, and yes we do also believe that that person, as long as he or she does not repent, shall not be able to enter the gate of the Kingdom of God. Without working at his or her bad attitude he or she shall not be able to make use of the Sinoffering Jesus did for him or her.
Clearly you seem to believe differently, and in our eyes that is your right, and we shall still respect you even when we would not agree on that point, that is part of being a brother in Christ.
I am glad to hear that you have a degree of freedom which most other non-Trinitarian organisations do not seem to have. I will be researching matters morer in the future to ensure that this is also the reputation you have amongst people who have left or people who have your members in their families.
Certainly if a person believes in Christ for their salvation then they should love God and be interested in doing and being what God loves. However, we do not receive our resurrection bodies at the point of faith. This means that the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. The Bible shows David being a man after God’s own heart, and yet capable of adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband. We know in our times of ordinary Christians in the Soviet Union who endured injections with mind-altering drugs in penal colonies and psychiatric hospitals rather than reject one point of Christian dooctrine, and yet the disciples who knew Jesus personally and walked with Him “all forsook Him and fled” when they encountered state violence. And were these not Christians?
The Bible shows us that we will be weak, even after claiming our salvation by calling on God in the Name of Jesus Christ and the redeeming strength of His blood. But just as we are called to forgive the one who wrongs us 7 times 70 times, so God is ready and able to forgive sin in the repenting believer 7 times 70 times, or even 7 to the power of 70 times.
There are sins that can be done which are serious enough to warrant a death penalty to be enacted on them by the state, and the states who take justice seriously should be enacting them. This antichrist European Union does not even allow nation states to vote about that. However, even if someone has been a murderer or an abuser of children, we cannot say that this sin is too much for the power of the blood of Christ. We can also not say that the damage done by these people is too great for God to compensate. He is able to wipe the tears from our eyes, and all things do work together for the good to those who love God, as it says in Romans 8 v 28, for those who are called according to His purposes. A person could well be given a just death penalty and yet be promised by Christ in his dying hour “Verily verily I say unto thee, this day shalt thou be with Me in paradise”.
In case the person on the video is an ex-catholic who came a protestant he probably in his search mixed a lot of ideas of other people or got confused with the many denominations he encountered.
Those who would like a proper view of what a Christadelphian is, I would advise to look at some Christadelphian websites and read more about their history and their thoughts.
Perhaps he himself is very well aware that not everything what he says is according the truth and therefore he does not offer a space for comment or even rating on his space. I find that he could have had the decency to allow people to react when he attacks them.
Dear sir, that more answers could come from the same server is because they be written from the same mainoffice of the several Biblestudents in Belgium. (Offering facilities to the Biblestudents, Christadelphians, Bijbelvorsers, several schools and institutions, and having several staff who also could write in their personal name (but also using the same server, which changes also the ip address every so often for safety reasons, which we do agree makes that sometimes at the turn over their message could come into the spambox by the other party) Sorry for such anonymity.
***
You wrote: “And sure enough, almost all the religions which are wonky about the Trinity also are unable to offer pure salvation by grace through faith alone, and always bring human works, the filthy rags of human pretended righteousness, into the salvation equation.”
so if you accept that the person no matter what he does he is saved and shall enter the kingom, the murder does not have to worry than and shall be pleased to have eternal life.
According to us that will not be. All people are saved by the Grace of God. The offering of Jesus bought everybody free; In case people do not bad things and repent for those things they have done wrong they shall be able to enter the Kingdom of God. But once people do know the Truth they also should know how to behave and live properly. When they do big faults they shall be accounted for those. That is why there shall be a judgement at the Last Day.
We do not believe that a person who got baptised and calls himself ‘reborn’ shall be able just to do like he likes. He shall have to keep to the commandments of God. You may believe that he can commit adultery and foul play, but have you ever wondered what ‘the small gate’ means? Many may be chosen and were saved but do not get to the finish point. Only by working in the faith, working at the own character, a person can grow to become like Christ, and that is one of the task given by Jesus. (Would you not agree? Or do you think a person is suddenly by his baptism as Christ? That also would mean nobody who is baptised shall be able to get excommunicated, because they would always like Christ and saved. Or do you think that is what Jesus said not to be afraid of men, and that they just can behave like they want because they are saved?)
Freedom of thought in Christadelphian churches? Poppycock. Contradict their doctrine, and watch the feathers fly. Mostly, it will be your feathers, as they ride you on a rail out the door. Freedom to come and go from the membership as you like? More poppycock. You do not leave casually, when all of your friends and relatives are trapped back in their “church,” along with 98 percent of the life you’ve lived, especially if you were born into this group. They know such things prevent easy defections, and these kinds of contentions are patently dishonest and intended as semantic manipulations directed at the reader. Examine this small cult group very carefully and evaluate it outside of the warmth and affection you’ll be bombarded with when you initially approach them. That is another technique involving manipulation.
Pull down any competent and comprehensive list for the criteria defining cult groups. Then ask yourself, “What do I see in Christadelphianism that fits into each of these criteria?”
You’ll find plenty. Then act accordingly by using your feet.
Many thanks for reading this article and its comments and engaging. I am not entirely surprised by the difficulty you report in leaving. The JWs are also notorious for this and they also deny it continually. On the other hand I know good churches which are probably not zealous enough in trying to see why people have stopped leaving. In their fear of being regarded as cultish, they even lay themsleves open to the charge of not caring.
No cult group defines itself as being “a cult.” Instead, it defines itself as “having the Truth,” thus exempting itself from the stigma of cultism.
There are good people in Christadelphianism, just as there are good people to be found in every human institution, regardless of the institution’s tenets.
The Christadelphians are still a cult group.
Many thanks for your visit and your contribution, which is very welcome. I hope I will see you around more.