Original YT playout date: 28 February 2009
Duration: 1:14:13
Cheryl from Manitoba in Canada gives 5 great questions about the Gold List method which will certainly help people who are using the method and still have uncertainties about its application.
“Knowing” a language is too vague a term and even if we agreed here what we mean by it, that wouldn’t have any meaning in the wider world, where it would remain vague.
On the one hand you have people like me who can say you don’t really know a language until you are really intimate with the way it handles all manner of nuance and situation, in the way you can be said not to fully know your wife or husband after forty years of marriage. There used to be a show in which married couples would be quizzed about each other and some surprises would come out about things they didn’t know about each other, this was the whole premise of the show and I believe that similar content has been on the TV or radio channels of most countries.
Then you have the 80:20 approach, where you get 80% of what a native of similar intelligence and education to you would have of his language, but Vilfredo Pareto, that famous Esperantist, discovered by throwing his pocket money onto a table that this only takes 20% of the time it would take to actually get as good as that equivalent native speaker, in the language.
I tend to aim for this kind of thing, if I get to be 80% as good in the language as my equivalent native speaker, then I can already communicate as sophisticatedly as I like and that ENS will take up the slack. That way, I get 5 languages for the price (the ‘time-price’) of one, which is a good bargain and also highly usable.
A lot of people using English comfortably in international business are at something like the 80% level. Whether they used the time saved to learn four other languages to the same good but incomplete level, learn some other thing, do more business or just spend more time with their guinea pigs is up to them.
Thanks to Cirone Musi for giving a CC license on Wikicommons for this photo of Professor D. at the Festival della Scienza, complete with fetching lanyard.
Further down the scale you have people who claim to know 20 or 30 or 80 languages. These are the polyglot equivalents of social networkers who have contact lists well in excess of the Dunbar number. For those who feel “dunbar” than they did before when I say that, I am referring to the lovely gentleman in the featured image, Professor Robin Ian MacDonald Dunbar, the head of Experimental Psychology at Oxford University. Some people say he is the one Diana Gabaldon had in mind when creating the character Roger Mac in the Outlander series. He represents the theory (more than an opinion, as he has got lots of data and it’s all been per reviewed and that) that humans can have meaningful and stable social relationships with somewhere between 100 and 250 people. Most typically this number seems to peak at about 150 people. I have to say I personally have little resonance when it comes to this theory, as I have a social media network which extends to (at the last count and I count it once a quarter) a little over 12,000. Allowing for the overlap between Facebook and LinkedIn that would still likely be over 9,000 being conservative.
Now continuing this analogy between knowing languages and knowing people, the 9,000 maybe symbolises the languages which there are in the world. How many there really are is probably fewer than that by now, as languages have a tendency of going extinct before they even achieve literacy and an archive. Manx and Cornish are among the lucky ones. I reckon there are probably something more like 1,500 which could be learned without recourse to field linguistics and a lot of malaria shots. There are currently 1,353 languages in the Gideons Bible App (my hearty and ongoing recommendation to all interested in the Bible and in languages, and it is free of course, and contains plenty of audio – available on all good App stores) and I am kind of going on that and things also I read in SIL resources. A lot depends on how you place the cut-off between what is another language and what is a dialect. There are more difference between forms of English and Arabic than there are between some clusters of two, three, four or more languages recognised as being separate. There are various tests for this, but in practice no overall consensus seems to have been reached, and of course politics rears its Gorgon’s head and turns objective thought to stone at regular intervals.
Then let’s consider analysing this into the people who asked to connect with me and I agreed, but probably if I cleared them out it wouldn’t make a great deal of difference – well I did at one point produce a cut down database of my contacts (pre GDPR, you understand) and the people I considered valuable contacts that I means to be able to email and phone with ease came to around 800 and now it may be more like 1000, so really maybe only 10%. This, in my languages/people analogy, is a good equivalence to the long lists of “Languages I would like to learn” which some of the less powerful intellects in the Polyglot universe seem to feel compelled to posting from time to time. Yes, we probably all would like to have the time to look at to a greater or lesser extent 10% of the languages that there are, listen to 10% of the songs there have even been, watch 10% of the movies, read 10% of the books, but because there are so many in reality we are going to cover a much smaller sample than that, whether we be persons of leisure or fanatically careerist sarariiman who take inemuri rather than reading breaks because they are too tired, and take zero leisure, apparently.
Of the 800, I would say that I know to greet on the street from the LinkedIn list 500 and another 500 from the facebook or YT side, and as far as really writing on a regular basis is concerned, sending memes privately, playing Quiz Planet or ItsYourTurn and chatting in a way that gets to know even a faceless person, maybe 300. But this is because I make an effort. This may represent the languages that an ambitious polyglot learns a few words of, learns maybe the Korean hangul, learns a bit of Koine to read some passages of New Testament, knows a few words or sentences of for touristic purposes, or looked at for philological research.
When it comes to actually knowing people very well, as it knowing how they will react in a certain situation, it is just a handful of people. And the same goes for languages.
And then you have to wonder whether you really know any person, or language, at all.
So in summary, the whole use of the term “knowing” a language is unhelpful, and I would simply refer the gentle reader to the sentence of Socrates via Plato: “ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα“, or “All I know is, I don’t know Jack”.
And for sure, we all do know a lot less than we think we do.
Original YT playout date: 6 December 2008
Duration: 9:10
The earlier comments have been removed in order to give this quiz a new life on Facebook Polyglots group in 2015. Most of the people there won’t have seen this video. Sorry if your comment is gone, it was there 7 years. Fkriuk won the original quiz.
It’s 10 thirty second long clips featuring mystery languages with as many visual clues removed as I could.
If you wish to take part in the quiz it will be open until the first person gets 100% or until the New Year, if earlier.
Answers must be added in Polyglots Group on Facebook or on Huliganov.TV as I have deleted the comments below, not sent by mail for just my attention, as part of the game is to see what marks other contestants got, and use also some numerical deduction to work your way to the right answer.
There will be clues over the course of the quiz, how many depends on how much the participants seem to need.
I’m only going to answer one (probably the first one) of each contestants sets of answers per day. This is to give everyone a fair chance. Come back and try again the next day and you’ll get another mark.
1 point for each correct answer.
A right answer imprecisely defined or misspelt gets 0.5 points, and it’s 0.2 points for getting the right language but in the wrong place.
Enjoy!
I couldn’t actually give credit for the YouTube materials taken to make this quiz as it would have given the game away, but if you see your piece used in here, please accept my gratitude, and please feel free to make yourself known in the comments after New Year. There are now annotations with these acknowledgements but please do not click on tchem while doing the quiz.
The store I refer to at which you can purchase any Amazon book and I will receive a small commission is http://astore.amazon.com/wwwusenetposc-20 the offer to use this commission on prizes is no longer current.
but as that is quite long to remember I’ve set up a new domain forwarding which is http://www.OIOIOIO.com, which you will easily remeber as it one of only a handful of web domains which reads the same upside down and back to front. It’s a wonder nobody else had booked it already, really. Just have to remember it’s the seven letter not the five letter one – that one belongs to someone else.
I also have http://www.OIOIOIO.eu which will be to the Amazon store for people in the EU, as they will find the P&P cheaper as well as not being troubled with customs duty and the wrong coding on DVDs.
Each of these stores has some recommended products but via these links you can buy any book, music, film or piece of equipment Amazon has to offer. If you can buy cheaper elsewhere do, if you were buying on Amazon anyway try and remember to use these domains to enter and you’ll be funding future competition prizes, which will be Amazon gift tokens, once I get enough commissions to fund them, which isn’t happening this time as, like I say, only one commission has been earned there so far, which is a tiny sum.
Original YT playout date: 24 November 2008
Duration: 21:00
This is part two of two parts that the 18th lesson comes in. You may be surprised not to get much actual Russian in the first half – but more talk around the way prepositions work in Russian, but I believe it will help you if you take in what is being said here – more than that, you won’t get your head around Russian unless and until you get some of the ideas I’m talking about here. In the second half, which will be in a day or so for those following real time, we cover two locative case prepositions, a joke and a song. Continue reading “RL 102-18 Locative Case prepositions – Part Two”→
Original YT playout date: 23 November 2008
Duration: 20:00
This is part one of two parts that the 18th lesson comes in. You may be surprised not to get much actual Russian in the first half – but more talk around the way prepositions work in Russian, but I believe it will help you if you take in what is being said here – more than that, you won’t get your head around Russian unless and until you get some of the ideas I’m talking about here. In the second half, which will be in a day or so for those following real time, we cover two locative case prepositions, a joke and a song. Continue reading “RL 102-18 Locative Case prepositions – Part One”→